Comments for rlketcham.com http://rlketcham.com cave paintings and other ideas Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:48:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 Comment on Craft by sabrina http://rlketcham.com/?p=799&cpage=1#comment-757 sabrina Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:48:00 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=799#comment-757 Thank you for this post, Ray. I know it's not your style to write this much but as one who has personally benefited from hearing your opinion, I am very pleased to see that you are sharing it with the world as it were. There are few people I've found who speak on this and other important aspects of photography in a way that makes sense to me. Both you and David duChemin are voices that resonate with me and for a while now I've noticed a lovely schronicity in what I'm hearing. I love what you've said here and if there is one part that I believe people need to think about in terms of their own learning journey, it is your last line. Learning to distinguish what we admire in someone's work i.e. art or craft, will help us think about and hopefully understand what we as individuals need to do to express ourselves eloquently and with the passion that is in our soul. Fundamental to this though is knowing ourselves or what I call self-awareness. I am hoping that your future post on inspiration and imitation will speak to that aspect. And yes, that's my attempt at encourgaging you to share more of your wisdom! Thank you for this post, Ray. I know it’s not your style to write this much but as one who has personally benefited from hearing your opinion, I am very pleased to see that you are sharing it with the world as it were. There are few people I’ve found who speak on this and other important aspects of photography in a way that makes sense to me. Both you and David duChemin are voices that resonate with me and for a while now I’ve noticed a lovely schronicity in what I’m hearing.

I love what you’ve said here and if there is one part that I believe people need to think about in terms of their own learning journey, it is your last line. Learning to distinguish what we admire in someone’s work i.e. art or craft, will help us think about and hopefully understand what we as individuals need to do to express ourselves eloquently and with the passion that is in our soul. Fundamental to this though is knowing ourselves or what I call self-awareness. I am hoping that your future post on inspiration and imitation will speak to that aspect. And yes, that’s my attempt at encourgaging you to share more of your wisdom!

]]> Comment on Craft by ray http://rlketcham.com/?p=799&cpage=1#comment-755 ray Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:32:27 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=799#comment-755 I have been ask what is wrong with copying someone else if it make a person happy. I believe in any creative endeavor copying someone else diminishes both sides of the equation. It dilutes the vision and voice of the original author by never being able to live up to that. No one can see things the same way as another and to attempt is to take a little away from that original. It also takes something away from the one doing the copy, why would a person feel that they have so little to say for themselves that they need to use someone elses voice to make things. It is a disrespect for self and the one being copied. I am interested in what a person has to say not what they can repeat that was fed to them as the 'way'. A persons experiences and view is unique and has a place of importance in the scheme of things, to repeat what someone else has done is to be more than invisible. Why would I be interested in a copy when I could go and see the original. The copy becomes even less than replication because the original vision based on that unique individual is missing. Yes learn the basics, then use them to say something of what you see not what you have been told to see. (Quote below is for those that need an 'authority' to hear it from. Weston should qualify) “Art is an end in itself. Technique a means to that end: one can be taught the other cannot, for it is the quality which we bring into the world with us, and lacking it as an integral part, no amount of study will enable one to acquire it.” EDWARD WESTON and more from a year ago from Steve Korn Jazz Musician http://rlketcham.com/?p=169 I have been ask what is wrong with copying someone else if it make a person happy.
I believe in any creative endeavor copying someone else diminishes both sides of the equation. It dilutes the vision and voice of the original author by never being able to live up to that. No one can see things the same way as another and to attempt is to take a little away from that original. It also takes something away from the one doing the copy, why would a person feel that they have so little to say for themselves that they need to use someone elses voice to make things. It is a disrespect for self and the one being copied.
I am interested in what a person has to say not what they can repeat that was fed to them as the ‘way’. A persons experiences and view is unique and has a place of importance in the scheme of things, to repeat what someone else has done is to be more than invisible. Why would I be interested in a copy when I could go and see the original. The copy becomes even less than replication because the original vision based on that unique individual is missing. Yes learn the basics, then use them to say something of what you see not what you have been told to see. (Quote below is for those that need an ‘authority’ to hear it from. Weston should qualify)

“Art is an end in itself. Technique a means to that end: one can be taught the other cannot, for it is the quality which we bring into the world with us, and lacking it as an integral part, no amount of study will enable one to acquire it.”
EDWARD WESTON

and more from a year ago from Steve Korn Jazz Musician
http://rlketcham.com/?p=169

]]> Comment on Craft by ray http://rlketcham.com/?p=799&cpage=1#comment-742 ray Mon, 06 Sep 2010 00:14:37 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=799#comment-742 I think we are in more agreement than you recognize Michael. In the case of your sister and a lot of the artists I have know over the years I am pretty sure they are no longer working with the same tools that they did when they started. I too learned the basics in art school and practiced them both in sculpture and painting. The methods and skills used to make the works have given way to new skills and technology. The technology is the craft. So my point is that to gain something it isn't the technique that matters but the reasoning behind it. If it takes working through a straight copy of something to get to the reason behind the method that is one path. However basics are basics and anything after that is influence. Working through the reasoning behind someones solution to a problem in expression is a viable choice in solving our own problems in expressing our voice. I am not dismissing the basics of craft but as Ansel Adams said I would rather see a fuzzy image of a sharp idea than a sharp image of a fuzzy idea. The use of others solutions that are made into our own is the result of influence not imitation and that is what is one of the contributions to our own voice. Again Basics are Basics and learning them is a worthwhile endeavor, my contention is there is something more in each individual and that the craft should be a means to an end not an end in itself. I too make a lot of images for money that are nothing more than a commercial solution to something that a client needs, they hardly rise to the level of art. But that doesn't mean I make all my images look like everyone one elses. I would like to believe my work even on that level is wanted because of my unique solution to that need. I think we are in more agreement than you recognize Michael. In the case of your sister and a lot of the artists I have know over the years I am pretty sure they are no longer working with the same tools that they did when they started. I too learned the basics in art school and practiced them both in sculpture and painting. The methods and skills used to make the works have given way to new skills and technology. The technology is the craft. So my point is that to gain something it isn’t the technique that matters but the reasoning behind it. If it takes working through a straight copy of something to get to the reason behind the method that is one path. However basics are basics and anything after that is influence.
Working through the reasoning behind someones solution to a problem in expression is a viable choice in solving our own problems in expressing our voice. I am not dismissing the basics of craft but as Ansel Adams said I would rather see a fuzzy image of a sharp idea than a sharp image of a fuzzy idea. The use of others solutions that are made into our own is the result of influence not imitation and that is what is one of the contributions to our own voice.
Again Basics are Basics and learning them is a worthwhile endeavor, my contention is there is something more in each individual and that the craft should be a means to an end not an end in itself.
I too make a lot of images for money that are nothing more than a commercial solution to something that a client needs, they hardly rise to the level of art. But that doesn’t mean I make all my images look like everyone one elses. I would like to believe my work even on that level is wanted because of my unique solution to that need.

]]> Comment on Craft by michael http://rlketcham.com/?p=799&cpage=1#comment-741 michael Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:46:08 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=799#comment-741 You know, Ray, everything you say is true, at least to a point. I do disagree with you about the potential pitfalls of copying another's style. Oh, it can be a trap leading us into becoming second rate copies of some influential photographer. Yet, we do need to learn the craft. Craft without inspiration becomes replication. Art without craft is usually junk. There are exceptions to the junk label, but they're rare. My sister was an art major and I got to know a number of other art students through her. Even at 20 I was able to see that there were those who were too lazy to learn the craft. Oh, they justified their attempts at art with ideals of being freed from the small minded norms, or needing to experiment to find themselves. Uniformly they produced inferior works. To my knowledge not one of those who needed to be "free" from craft were still practicing artists even ten years later. The ones who learned to copy the masters, who practiced and practiced, were the only ones to succeed. Yes, some of them never became daring artists, my sister included. Some did. And they did so because they had built a sound foundation of skill on which to perform their unique vision. I mention my sister, and that brings me to a second point. Not everyone wants to be an "artist." My sister has always called herself an illustrator. Sure, she does original work and it has evolved to become recognizably hers. Yet, she never aspired to be an artist. She is happy getting her biggest commissions from wildlife centers and universities, doing good animal illustrations. Your essay presupposes that all photographers aspire to be artists. Sure, many do, but far from all. I know a lady who is perfectly happy cranking out macro bug picture after macro bug picture. Her work is lovely, but not art. Nor does she think of herself as an artist. She is a macro photographer. I play at macro photography. I have a fascination with seeing things at the high magnification that my camera is capable of producing. I don't consider those photos as art. Actually, I don't really consider much of my work as art. However, I get a lot of joy out of the process of taking and processing photos then sharing them. If I never develop a unique style I still enjoy photography. You mention your friend duChemin. Partly as a result of your encouragement, I recently bought a copy of Lightroom. To learn it I am working through duChemin's most recent book. I'm using his photos, which he kindly supplies, in high resolution. I'm working the photos with his Lightroom settings. Am I likely to end up copying his style? Not really. I'm learning to use the tools from a good teacher. I'm copying his work. I'll probably work through another book or attend a workshop and copy another teacher before I'll feel comfortable with what is a complex program, and which requires a very different approach from that I learned with Photoshop. That's a good thing. I know that I learn best in that manner and that I will make the tools my own. Yet, even if I didn't, and ended up copying David duChemin, what's wrong with that if I'm happy with my photos? That's my third point. I know that I'm not alone in learning most quickly by copying an expert. It might be a waste if I simply became an imitator, but I won't. I learn one style from one teacher. I learn another style from another. By comparing the different approaches I can become more accurate in predicting what outcomes I'll achieve with different tools and techniques. By prematurely attempting to achieve my own vision I will slow the progression down because I won't have control of the media. Some people need to start with vision and work backwards to gaining mastery over the tools. Some learn best by gaining comfort with the tools the extrapolation from there. Neither way is better or more artistic. It's just a matter of different learning styles. You know, Ray, everything you say is true, at least to a point. I do disagree with you about the potential pitfalls of copying another’s style. Oh, it can be a trap leading us into becoming second rate copies of some influential photographer. Yet, we do need to learn the craft. Craft without inspiration becomes replication. Art without craft is usually junk. There are exceptions to the junk label, but they’re rare.

My sister was an art major and I got to know a number of other art students through her. Even at 20 I was able to see that there were those who were too lazy to learn the craft. Oh, they justified their attempts at art with ideals of being freed from the small minded norms, or needing to experiment to find themselves. Uniformly they produced inferior works. To my knowledge not one of those who needed to be “free” from craft were still practicing artists even ten years later. The ones who learned to copy the masters, who practiced and practiced, were the only ones to succeed. Yes, some of them never became daring artists, my sister included. Some did. And they did so because they had built a sound foundation of skill on which to perform their unique vision.

I mention my sister, and that brings me to a second point. Not everyone wants to be an “artist.” My sister has always called herself an illustrator. Sure, she does original work and it has evolved to become recognizably hers. Yet, she never aspired to be an artist. She is happy getting her biggest commissions from wildlife centers and universities, doing good animal illustrations.

Your essay presupposes that all photographers aspire to be artists. Sure, many do, but far from all. I know a lady who is perfectly happy cranking out macro bug picture after macro bug picture. Her work is lovely, but not art. Nor does she think of herself as an artist. She is a macro photographer. I play at macro photography. I have a fascination with seeing things at the high magnification that my camera is capable of producing. I don’t consider those photos as art. Actually, I don’t really consider much of my work as art. However, I get a lot of joy out of the process of taking and processing photos then sharing them. If I never develop a unique style I still enjoy photography.

You mention your friend duChemin. Partly as a result of your encouragement, I recently bought a copy of Lightroom. To learn it I am working through duChemin’s most recent book. I’m using his photos, which he kindly supplies, in high resolution. I’m working the photos with his Lightroom settings. Am I likely to end up copying his style? Not really. I’m learning to use the tools from a good teacher. I’m copying his work. I’ll probably work through another book or attend a workshop and copy another teacher before I’ll feel comfortable with what is a complex program, and which requires a very different approach from that I learned with Photoshop. That’s a good thing. I know that I learn best in that manner and that I will make the tools my own. Yet, even if I didn’t, and ended up copying David duChemin, what’s wrong with that if I’m happy with my photos?

That’s my third point. I know that I’m not alone in learning most quickly by copying an expert. It might be a waste if I simply became an imitator, but I won’t. I learn one style from one teacher. I learn another style from another. By comparing the different approaches I can become more accurate in predicting what outcomes I’ll achieve with different tools and techniques. By prematurely attempting to achieve my own vision I will slow the progression down because I won’t have control of the media. Some people need to start with vision and work backwards to gaining mastery over the tools. Some learn best by gaining comfort with the tools the extrapolation from there. Neither way is better or more artistic. It’s just a matter of different learning styles.

]]> Comment on Always a story there by Charlene http://rlketcham.com/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-722 Charlene Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:50:38 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=789#comment-722 Beautiful portrait Ray. Have you heard his stories? Beautiful portrait Ray. Have you heard his stories?

]]> Comment on Josh Bradley & Friends by ray http://rlketcham.com/?p=782&cpage=1#comment-720 ray Sat, 28 Aug 2010 04:47:55 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=782#comment-720 Thanks all It was a pretty intense day and these images made it even better for me. Thanks all It was a pretty intense day and these images made it even better for me.

]]> Comment on Always a story there by ray http://rlketcham.com/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-719 ray Sat, 28 Aug 2010 04:46:48 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=789#comment-719 thanks everyone Not really sure what to say other than the chance to make these kind of images is real important to me. I am hope that it made a connection. thanks everyone Not really sure what to say other than the chance to make these kind of images is real important to me. I am hope that it made a connection.

]]> Comment on Always a story there by Sue http://rlketcham.com/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-717 Sue Fri, 27 Aug 2010 03:23:11 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=789#comment-717 I just love this portrait. love. I just love this portrait. love.

]]> Comment on Always a story there by Sabrina http://rlketcham.com/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-711 Sabrina Wed, 25 Aug 2010 06:04:21 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=789#comment-711 Each time I see another one of your portraits I'm bowled over by how well you "see" people. You have a way of looking into their soul and revealing it to the world. Each time I see another one of your portraits I’m bowled over by how well you “see” people. You have a way of looking into their soul and revealing it to the world.

]]> Comment on Always a story there by Don http://rlketcham.com/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-695 Don Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:07:01 +0000 http://rlketcham.com/?p=789#comment-695 Great portrait, looks like Ray could tell a few stories. Great portrait, looks like Ray could tell a few stories.

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